87: Nani Jansen Reventlow on Intentionally Funding Leadership Transitions
Nani Jansen Reventlow is an international human rights lawyer. She is the founder of Systemic Justice, an organisation that advocates for marginalised communities across Europe through strategic litigation. Previously, she founded the Digital Freedom Fund. Nani is the author of the book Radical Justice, a collection of nine essays on how to build a better world, published in Dutch in 2024 with an English edition coming in March 2026.
Find Nani:
Quotes:
“If you trust someone to build an organization, why wouldn't you trust them to also make sure that that work can continue without them?”
“I want to set up the organization for further success because I invested in building it. I want it to thrive as I leave. That means not only looking after my ‘legacy’, but also making sure that the incoming executive director is set up for success and that there's sufficient space for them.”
“There's not going to be a successful leadership transition if we lose the team along the way. So making sure that there's someone who's looking out for everyone and for the people who are not making themselves heard. Change is uncomfortable for us humans. There needs to be someone who's mindful of the different feelings and dynamics that come up.”
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This podcast is produced by Sarah Hartley.
“I want to set up the organization for further success because I invested in building it. I want it to thrive as I leave. That means not only looking after my ‘legacy’, but also making sure that the incoming executive director is set up for success and that there’s sufficient space for them.”
Transcript:
Nani Jansen, Raven Low is an international human rights lawyer. She's the founder of systemic justice and organization that advocates for marginalized communities across Europe through strategic litigation. Previously she founded the Digital Freedom Fund. Nani is the author of the book, radical Justice, which is a collection of nine essays on how to build a better World.
Published in Dutch in 2024 with an English edition coming soon in March of 2026. Nani, I'm really excited to have you on and have this conversation. I first found out about your work because you referenced mine in a really beautiful essay that we will link in the show notes. I'm curious if you could just start by sharing a little bit about your strategy and intention around planned exits.
You're, you're not a stranger to planning exits, and I'm curious specifically about how you've had conversations with board of directors and other interested parties. Uh, most founders don't start there and I'd love to hear more. Thank you so much, and thank you so much for having me. I'm really, really thrilled to be here.
Well, I had a conversation with the board of the previous organization that I founded at a digital freedom fund. I think the first time that, uh, the board met. And I basically informed them at the time that I was going to do this for five years and that I was going to be leaving. Uh, then this was actually my attempt at just being transparent about my plans.
It was the first time for me setting up an organization, uh, at the time and. I felt I had very strong feelings about wanting to avoid the pitfalls of, of so-called founder syndrome, sticking around for too long, uh, and longer than was good for the organization, but also because with that organization I felt very strongly that, um, I was there to fulfill a mandate that was supposed to benefit, uh, a specific group of stakeholders, digital rights organizations in Europe, and that it was my duty to build something that could, uh, outlive me.
So essentially set up something that I could then hand over to someone else and that could live on, uh, beyond me as an individual. And five years seemed like a good timeline for that. So, uh, yeah, that's kind of what I set myself. And then I, I shared that with the, with the board at the time. I don't think they really, they really took, took me that seriously at time.
But, uh, yeah, I stuck with it. I have to say that I had a moment at some point where I was like, oh, uh, should I reconsider, should I stay a little bit longer and maybe do the international scaling work that I, I kind of envisaged for the organization. But having had a couple of conversations with myself was like, no, actually I'm gonna stick with my timeline and, and move on.
Did they have, so you, you mentioned that they maybe didn't quite believe you or, or kind of said, okay. Okay. Did they have any pushback that you had to navigate or address? I guess that, well, it's difficult for me to guess, right? What they were thinking at the time. I didn't get explicit fe uh, pushback. I, I did, uh, read from their faces that they found it rather unusual probably for this information to be shared.
So forthrightly, uh, at the outset of a collaboration. And at the same time, it just probably five years still felt. Pretty far away, so I, that might have had something to do with it. You, in, in your essay you wrote about having some guilt about wanting to leave after doing what you said was the quote unquote, the fun bit of creation and getting something started.
I'm curious if, if, now I think you wrote that piece in July, so we're a couple months later at the time of recording. Curious if you have. Moved further into accepting that decision, uh, and that narrative, what would you say also to other founders who might be struggling and wrestling with similar feelings?
Yeah. It's been a whole journey for me. Right. And I also, when I, when I, um, started building this organization, systemic Justice, after leaving the Digital Freedom Fund, I didn't have as clear a timeline in mind as I did. Then still wasn't going to stay until the ejector, uh, seat button was going to be pushed.
I have this kind of like mythical timeline of 10 years where someone should be pushing that button for you and then whoop. There you go. It's just something that just started to dawn on me actually in the beginning of last year when we were having conversations about leadership and about management and so on, and, uh, the very innocent question came up in that conversation about like, what kind of, what kind of manager are you?
That just that I, I nearly had a nervous breakdown, just like reflecting on a question. And I think that that was the first time that it just really dawned on me, like, I don't wanna be a manager. It's not for me. And I struggled with that for quite some time. I felt really guilty because I was like, well, what does that mean that I basically, you know, do all the fun things, the strategy to kind of like hustling, to get a thing going, building things, and then.
Then I don't want to do it anymore. Right. You know, kinda see it through. And it took me a few months actually to go over that in my head to start carefully started talking to people about it. And surprisingly as you get when you actually start talking to other people about it, she got a lot of helpful reflections back about like how.
There are also people who don't wanna start a thing, but want to get something handed over to them that they can then take further. And I was like, oh, okay, maybe there's this, like different roles for different people and so on. So that started to kind of like, uh, grow a little bit and then, uh, started actually having a conversation within the organization, within the, uh, senior leadership team.
Okay. What would it look like bringing in an executive director? Could do that. Management originally, not necessarily thinking that I would be leaving immediately, but maybe there was a way in which I could still do strategy or like all the things that I, uh, I think I'm good at and that I enjoy. But then actually as things evolved, I started to think, well, actually I should just step away from it because if, uh, we're a small organization.
If we're going to bring in someone to really take the work further, I should just also just be able to just step away and let them do that. We need to find the right person, obviously, but then my only task still then is to make sure that they are well set up, uh, to, to take off. I love that you said that about the, when you socialize the idea and your worries with other people, they were able to feedback and give you the reflection that, and it's true.
There are so many people who are not fire starters and are scared of that. They would rather tend the coals and Nani, you're like me. I think I. Cannot fathom being excited about tending the Kohls like, let me move on to something else. More exciting. But for people that are great managers, that's what they love, is to be able to steward a team through that next phase.
So I'm glad, I'm glad that you, that you shared that. I'm curious also about this, so this is something that I also, that we, we share an agreement on and I'd love to hear your around funder anxiety during transitions. And I have also seen that there's a checkbox often in grant agreements that says either, do you have a succession plan or is anyone planning to exit?
On the other end of that, they're not supporting transitions with their funding. And so it's like, what, what are we asking this for? I'm curious if there were any practices that you encountered or language that you were able to kind of, um, that came to you as you navigated maybe some funder anxiety, um, through your transition, whether that is the previous organization or with systemic justice.
I've seen worse than the checkbooks. I've seen the clauses that allow funders to withdraw their support if there's a senior leadership transition that they're unhappy with, which I was, I saw that with my previous organization. I was like, wow, that is, that is intense. It's such a fascinating dynamic, right?
This idea that both you want, you want, you want to both have really strong institutions. Allegedly as a funder, and at the same time, you're really hung up on the people who are running them. I understand that to a certain degree with, uh, with startups, right? Because a lot of investment that is being made is in the belief that the person who is setting it up is going to actually make the vision that they're selling you happen.
So I do get that. You wouldn't want. That person maybe to leave, uh, after six months, you know, there, there, there could be something in that you could, you could rationalize that position in any event. What I just really found quite interesting over the past couple of months, because I started socializing the idea as soon as I could actually, with our funders that we were thinking about, we're going to be working towards it, et cetera, just to kind of make sure that it wasn't an abrupt thing.
People need to be able to get used to it, but that a lot of foundations still haven't reconciled. Those two things, right? Wanting to have strong institutions. Being hung up on founder figures. There's a lot of, yeah. Really strange reassuring that needs to happen in that context. And I, I find it, the reason why I find it p puzzling, like from a rational, uh, viewpoint is that if you trust someone to build an organization to build work, why wouldn't you trust them to then also make sure that that work can continue without them.
I actually think that in a lot of ways it would be a much better metric to kind of actually ask about, like, have you thought about transitions? Have you thought about succession? Because you should actually start thinking about that pretty early on in order for it to run well. Like do you want to bring someone up within the organization is a very different starting point from we want to bring someone in from the outside or it doesn't matter.
Rather than having in your, in your funding contract, you know, we can withdraw if, if we don't like the new leadership. But I think that, you know, in a, in a lot of ways it relates to the, the eternal problem within philanthropy. That it's actually not as trust-based as it quite often, uh, as it wants to be.
I think that also brings up for me, Nani, that they also have not wrestled with their own succession plans inside of philanthropy. You know, whether it's a family foundation or um, a collective. They also have not talked internally about what happens as mm-hmm. Folks pass. And, and the other thing that I think of when you're talking about this, Reid Hoffman, who is the founder of LinkedIn, wrote a book, um, I can't remember the name of the book, but in it, he talks about tours of duty and he, he says that if we would look at our work as only a tour of duty, that we're here for a time that that lets us place ourselves in that moment.
So we're either in the founder tour of duty or we're in the. Transformation, tour of duty, or we're in the stead, you know, steadfast, stabilizing part of it. And I just think that, like you said, it would make organizations so much stronger and the funding relationships could come alongside that stability to be talking about it.
From the front. I like the, I like the tour of duty, uh, framing. And it, it aligns also very nicely, right? With the way, the way that we look at, at long-term activism, right? There's a lot of, we're working to bring about structural change. We can't expect all of that change to manifest itself within our lifetimes.
Like, so there's also this idea of that you're, you're always handing over. To the next person, the same way that your work builds on someone else who's come before you. So this idea that there's just going to be like one person who's just going to do it all, whether it's in the context of, of an organization or within a movement or a longer arc, uh, of, of change work is actually Yeah.
Really unrealistic. Yeah. Especially, especially when we attach so much. Legacy and continuity to the one person. If we're here to see those changes happen and that impact happen, it's so shortsighted to think that we. To, to not plan for continuity with mm-hmm. Leadership. You also, uh, in your piece, which I was so excited to see, I, I literally was so excited when I have a Google alert set up, and so when I saw it come up, I was like, I just was reading it with the biggest smile on my face.
Because you also talked about bringing in an external consultant to help with the design of this, which a lot of folks don't do, and a lot of folks do too late. What things came up for you to get you to the place where you were like, I think that you shouldn't manage it solo or internally and to bring in some support.
And so I guess in that question also, what would you tell the, the listener who is navigating transition support, what should they look for? So I think, um, I was thinking along two, two tracks. One about that kind of had to do with the substance and about the, the way that we were going to be doing the leadership, uh, transition.
And that is, uh, I really, I want to do it well. I want to set up the organization for further success because like I invested in building it. I wanted to thrive, uh, as I live. That means not only kind of like looking after my quote unquote legacy and making sure that, you know, the moment I, I close the door behind me.
I don't get blamed for everything that isn't working in the world. You know, like one of those things. But also making sure that the incoming executive director is set up for success and that there's sufficient space for them and. I may think that I am an incredibly balanced and fair person, but you know, we all have our quirks, we all have our pet peeves, our hangups, and all of the things.
And I cannot, cannot guarantee that I'm going to give the right amount of space to the new leadership coming in to be able to do their thing because I may be focused on things that are just really points of anxiety for me, for example. So. I, I figured like bringing in someone who's going to be like a third party to hold that space and make sure that it's fair.
Does justice to both of us and both of our perspectives to get to the outcome that we all envisage, uh, would be a good way of doing that. In addition, I was just also very practically thinking of workload and also seeing in that sense, I'm also seeing a transition as an opportunity to improve certain things because there's a really interesting, uh, thing that happened, at least for me, where I was thinking of handing over what I'm doing right now, which is the jobs of way too many people to.
This person coming in and I was just like, I can't give that to someone else. Like it, it that grew that way historically. Right? But you end up being like chief fundraiser and chief communications and HR and like all the things and also the vision holder and whatever. Just way too much stuff going on at the same time, uh, in one inbox and in one head.
And I was like, okay, if on top of that, then actually managing that delicate process as well. It's just not gonna work. It just, just looked like a recipe for disaster. So, uh, so it was, it was both kind of making sure that we created the right kind of space for everyone, but also just from a very practical perspective.
And here I should, uh, also of course like mention, because now I'm only talking about the leadership. You know, there's not going to be a successful leadership transition if we lose the team along the way or any other important stakeholders, uh, for our work. And making sure that there's someone who is looking out for everyone, uh, and also who is making sure that, that we're looking out also for people who are not making themselves be heard, for example.
'cause like not everyone speaks up. Change is uncomfortable. For people in, in different ways. Not so much because they think it's bad, but just, you know, things changing as just uncomfortable for, for us humans, there just needs to be someone who's, who's mindful of all of those different feelings, uh, and dynamics that come up.
I love that you brought the team up because that is a, a key point of what I do in my work, and it's often the thing that I have the hardest time getting the deciders, uh, who are going to approve a contract to understand what I bring in. And I also wanna support the team. A lot of times they say, well, we're just, we need to focus on the executive director who's leaving and the executive director who's coming in.
But it is so important, and I think that the other piece that's so important is that. Change brings up things from our past. And so what we might be seeing in a team as they react to news of say, you leaving is not just about you leaving, it's about other experiences that they've had. And so understanding where people come from, uh, in their change in transition relationships, um, is really important.
So I'm glad, I'm glad that, that your team is all working through that together. You also mentioned so many good points here, Nani. You also mentioned the unhealthy normalization of funders. Uh, I'm sorry, founders staying on as advisors. I've got really opinions about this. What do you think healthy disengagement looks like when you think about, you mentioned earlier even you thought about potentially staying on and letting someone else come in to sit in the executive director role.
What could that look like and how have you structured your exit? And maybe it's still in design, but to avoid some of that normalization. Yeah, it's, it's still in design, so everything under the, the caveat that the exact details are still going to be worked out. We are envisaging like a, a, a nice long and steady transition.
Uh, that takes us into June of next year. Basically, like for the rest of this year, uh, the incoming executive director has time and space to kind of. Get to know everyone, start kind of like getting involved in the, in the, in the rhythm of the way that we work, do planning work because, uh, our next organizational strategy needs to be developed.
We need to do a number of key recruitments. Uh, so it kind of really starting to think about those things and how to, how to prioritize. And then the idea is to have a really clear moment where. I'm no longer the end person where, where everything kind of like, where everything goes to, uh, but, uh, that she will be, uh, that person.
So the idea is, I think now to make that switch, um, in, in a new year. So that starting January, the day to day will really go to the executive director, meaning that I'm still there, like, and I'm there, but that I, the way that I right now at least see that is that I'm there to make sure that she can do everything, that she gets context when she needs it and that, you know, whatever, and that I can still help out with things, but that I'll become less visible as.
The person running the place, uh, because she will be. So that's actually the, the idea to make sure that she gets placed front and center. I'm currently also the person who is the management board of the organization. We have a supervisory board, and I'm the management board as the, uh, I'm, I'm technically executive director now.
Then the idea is that she'll be appointed onto the management board, uh, in March so that we have shared formal ownership of the organization and that at the next point when there's, again, a supervisory board meeting where. The next organizational strategy would be approved, I would then step down from the management board.
So then I would formally really like leave the, leave the organization. The thinking behind this is that there's a transition where first there's space for the incoming person to just kind of like first find their bearings before they have to actually be and responsible for an awful lot of things, right?
Like I, I can't imagine like having to both orientate yourself and getting started all like, I mean, you'd be overworked in, in two weeks time. So I just. I don't think that that's a very, uh, very sustainable way of doing it. Then also kind of making sure that it's very clear that at some point I'm not the person to talk to anymore, but that the executive director is.
Then we have shared ownership formally of the organization for a little while and then. Once a strategy is approved, I will have the reassurance that, uh, the strategy of the organization is going to build towards the same systemic change that we've been pursuing. Uh, so I can feel good about that. And, uh, there's also basically the, the direction set, the course and the direction is set for both the executive director and the supervisory board, uh, to follow over the coming period.
So. I'm hoping that that is, is going to work out well, but that's the planning that we're looking at, uh, at right now. I love the idea behind this, and when you were speaking about the plan that you're setting into motion, it made me think about the beauty of your. Runway that you've created, you are less likely, I would imagine, to be burnt out.
And I see all the time where the executive director is exhausted and burnt out and they're done. And so there isn't the ability to have that overlap time because the outgoing person is like, I just. I need to be done. I need to be out. And so this just feels more intentional and thoughtful and really beautiful, quite honestly.
Yeah, I'm super excited that someone's coming in who, who loves the work enough to want to take it over and. I am, I couldn't think of anything more wonderful than be able to just kind of do a lot of information transfer and sharing and uh, then basically being there to, to support. And actually coming back to your point about like not staying on right.
I get a lot of questions, right? Like, are you going to be on the supervisory board, et cetera. Like I couldn't think of anything more annoying than to kind of like have a founder look over your shoulder when you're just fresh and excited about like doing new things and whatever. I'm just, just, to me. That just seems like a nightmare.
I agree. Um, and also like all the things that I hope to still bring to the work, because I still want to support the work. I hope to be able to send, uh, connections, funding opportunities, whatever in a direction of the organization, help brainstorm if there's something to figure out, et cetera. I can do all of those things without being formal part of the organization.
Like I, I don't understand. Why you'd want to have that formality? Of course, I'll pick up the phone like, right. That's just a given. Yeah. Yeah. I think in the experiences that I've had when I've helped organizations where an executive director wants to stay on, it really boils down to ego, I think, and an inability to untether themselves from this thing.
It's, it's most often founders if someone is a successor or. Is is farther down in the organization's history. I don't see them as a group. Mm-hmm. Wanting to stay on. It's typically founder. And so there's some things I think tied up with, you know, we always, we always joke, this is my baby, or, but even that, when we think about that as an example, your children grow up and move out of the house and, you know, that changes.
So it's, it's like that's not, it's kind of a fallacy even to, to call it a baby. Yeah. I'm curious, kind of going on that same line of thinking around the hero worship that happens, um, and, and organizations that don't want to do succession planning. What would you say to the organization and funders maybe who are listening about the power of incentivizing and funding intentionally leadership transitions, uh, instead of what happens then is, I think founder dependency.
Curious if you have thoughts on that. Yes. Yeah, if you, if you look at the funding landscape, you see, uh, a lot of support, of course, like for organizations, for programs, et cetera. You see a lot of support for quote unquote change makers to start things. But there are very, very, very few examples of, uh, support for transitions or for someone to just kind of like.
Figure out what their next thing is, right? Like, I've had these conversations with, uh, with other, uh, woman founders, uh, that I know, like, you know, where's the fellowship? That's going to give you some time to just figure out what your next step is, right? And that often keeps people, uh, locked in because you know, you have to pay your mortgage, your rent, uh, you have obligations.
Where are you gonna go? Like where you're gonna find the luxury of actually. Reflecting on, on what is a good next step for you. And there's that, and then there's also like the kind of support that, that we're kind of bringing in now to kind of like help us with the, with the transition, where you're gonna find the funding for that.
There used to be, uh, a new executive fund, I think with Ops Society foundations, which allowed for support for like two years for new executives, uh, coming into an organization, which is a really great concept. And I, I do think that. If you're, if you're serious about supporting. Organizations to become sustainable.
That is the kind of dedicated support that should always be there for any of your grantees to draw down from whenever that comes up, because you could be undoing all your previous investments by having an organization go through a bad transition. I find it really puzzling. I do as well. There's a couple of funders who I have worked with because I've worked with their grantees and then in the conversation, 'cause that's always what happens.
They say, I don't have budget for this. And so I will give them some recommendations of how to talk to funders to ask for funders like capacity building, um, as a term. Mm-hmm. So I say, we'll call it capacity building. And then what's been beautiful is. Pivoting those conversations to the funder directly to say, I've now worked for three of your grantees to do this work.
Let's talk more holistically and more broadly. So I'm excited about some movement, I think in the US, around funders taking that seriously. So hopefully we'll start to see it continue to grow where funders take the proactive work to say. Here's some funds. There is a couple of places that I've learned of that I'll put in the show notes for listeners.
Um, to explore a lot of those, you have to be existing grantees or you have to be geographically based. But, um, I'm hopeful to start seeing it grow. That would be really great. I mean, we've been lucky that some of our funders have been, have been really open to, uh, to the request and allowed us to reallocate some of the funding, some funding that we hadn't spent yet, uh, to, to this process.
And others are, are thinking about it and trying to figure out if there's, if there's a little pots left anywhere. But I do think that, like making sure that that's a structurally something that you always have. Available and that, you know, program officers can just proactively be like, so, okay, great, well this is what we can do to help you.
It would probably create like so much more space and more creativity also in the way that people think about transitions, because otherwise you're just thinking what's the, what's the narrowest possible overlap that I can create to make sure that it's cheap as possible? Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I'm also thinking as, as you're listening to this, um, episode, if you are curious about what a transition support cost could look like, I will share my email at the end of this and happy to just share my take on what you could even budget as an, uh, nonprofit leader.
If you have reserves, that's another thing you can kind of tuck away some potentially if you don't have the budget. So. Naty. My last question for you. Uh, you wrote in this essay that your dream is to slip out of systemic justice's 10th anniversary with a smile. I'm curious, as you are still, like you've said, still in the design process, but what has to happen between now and then for, for that vision to be a reality for you?
So I hope that, uh, by the end of this, uh, transition process, I'll feel really relaxed about, about leaving basically, where I'm just like, okay, I don't think I have anything to add anymore. Like, uh, people, the team, the executive director, they've got this, uh, it's all good. The executive director is basically kind of like, well, I don't think I have anything more to ask her.
So, so it's all nice, but like, when is she leaving? So, in a nice way and. Basically that I can get to just kind of like, follow how things develop from there, um, so that the, uh, the team further grows that the work is thriving, and that at that 10th anniversary there'll be all these wonderful current and ex team members who all have, you know.
All having a good time. Uh, our partners and people are really celebrating the beautiful change work that they're building, and I will feel very happy that I stepped away to make the space to make that happen because I just know that I'm not the person to get it there. And I, I just really look forward to, uh, seeing how the beautiful new energy.
We also recently had another new member of our senior leadership team. I was just like reflecting the other week. It's just so fabulous. You can like see new people coming in who are really passionate about the mission, who have all this excitement and energy for it, and I just, I'm just like, I can't wait to see where that goes.
And I'm just, yeah. I'm excited about it. It's so, it's so refreshing to hear you say that. And the reason I wanted, I mean, there's many reasons I wanted to have this conversation, but one of the reasons was. To have your story and your vision for being excited about leaving, um, serve as an inspiration to others.
So I'm so thankful to have met you. Is there anything that we didn't touch on or anything that you would like to share before we close? Hmm. That's a really good question. Uh, I, I want to maybe kind of like be really be really honest. Like it's not like I don't every now and then have deep anxiety. What am I going to do next, uh, with my life?
And people ask me a lot like, what's next? I said, if I need to have a plan already as to where I'm going. I actually don't. And I'm actually trying to lean into not having one first. I think it's still very far away. It's nine months from now. Like if I already knew what I wanted to do exactly, I would get really impatient, uh, probably wanting to get going with that and overstretch myself in the process.
I really want to focus on the transition first. Then take some time for myself and then think about what I want to do next. I have between setting up the previous organization and this one, I never took a proper break. It was like the winter break, but that was it. And actually not between any of my other jobs before.
I've just basically been working like since I left university. And I think it's time to just like have a moment to be and see where that takes me and. That's really scary. I just wanna acknowledge that. That's really scary. That's also scary for me. I'm not some sort of like strange person who just floats around in some sort of happy bubble.
On the contrary, if you know me, absolutely not. But I think that that's kind of a discomfort, discomfort that's will be good for me, uh, as a person and for my development to lean into and, and, and see where that goes. Thank you for being real on that. I also, it's so common that people say, well, my last day at the current place is Friday and Monday of next week.
And I'm like, oh, that's not enough. It's not enough. Yeah. Take the break. Take the break. And I, I think that, you know, we do have such a culture of work. I think especially feminine leadership, we lean into caretaking and that means not taking a break and not resting. So I, I agree with you. Anytime you can take a break.
Nani, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I appreciate you. I appreciate your, your leadership in this space and on this topic, uh, of setting an example of what it can mean to leave well. Thank you for this wonderful conversation and for everything that you're doing. Thank you. If you are an organizational leader, board member, or a curious staff member, take the leaving while assessment to discover your organization's transition readiness archetype.
It's quick and easy, and you can find it@naomihattaway.com. Slash assessment, it's Naomi, N-A-O-M-I, hattaway, H-A-T-T-A-W-A y.com/assessment. To learn more about leaving well and how you can implement and embed the framework and culture in your own life and workplace. You can also see that information on my website.
It's time for each of us to look ourselves in the mirror and finally admit we are playing a powerful role in the system. We can either exist outside of our power or choose to decide to shift culture and to create transformation. Until next time, I'm your host, Naomi Hadaway, and you've been listening to Leaving Well, a Navigation Guide for Workplace Transitions.